From the Daf

From the Daf – Presidential Debates and Mipnei Seivah Takum

One of the most iconic moments in presidential debate history came in 1984, when Ronald Reagan campaigned for reelection against Walter Mondale.

The 73-year-old Reagan was the oldest serving U.S. president at the time and had moments in his campaign where his age appeared to catch up to him. But when asked on the debate stage if his age would cause issues during his presidency, Reagan responded:

“I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I will not exploit, for political purposes, my opponent’s youth and inexperience.”

Even Mondale laughed at this and Reagan cruised to an easy victory.

The value of age and experience is not just a fact of life. It’s a Torah value.

The Torah commands us (Vayikra 19:32) “Mipnei seivah takum vehadarta pnei zaken – Before the elderly you shall rise and you shall show respect for the aged.”

Although the Gemara in Kiddushin (32b) relates how the prime commandment in this verse is to honor talmidei chachamim, the Gemara also relates how Rav Yochanan would make sure to stand before even ordinary elderly people due to the experiences that they had. And Rava, although he would not stand, he would nonetheless make a show of deference.

Rashi adds that an ordinary elderly person is also likely to have experienced miracles and that makes one worthy of deference. The Chinuch explains further that through life experience, one understands the actions of Hashem and his miracles – making one worthy of deference, similar to a chacham.

But one thing is not immediately clear from the Torah. How old must one be to be included in this mitzvah?

An initial reading of the Gemara indicates that the first part of the verse – mipnei seivah takum – is a reference to the elderly while the second half of the verse – vehardata pnei zaken – is a reference to Torah scholars. This would indicate that the age of seivah would be the age required to be included in this mitzvah.

How old is seivah

The Gemara in Bava Basra (75a) tells us that seivah is no less than 70 years. This is also found in the Mishnah in Pirkei Avos (5:22), which tells us “ben shiv’im l’seivah” – that seivah is attained at the age of 70.

Based on this, the Tur and Shulchan Aruch both rule that the mitzvah applies to people aged 70 and above.

Interestingly, the Rambam and Meiri both do not give a specific age for this mitzvah but instead say it applies to a “zaken muflag” – someone of extreme age. That said, Rav Ovadia Yosef zt”l (Yabia Omer YD 3:13) explains that the Rambam and Meiri means the age of 70, as we find that King David was considered “very old” by the neviim when he reached the age of 70.

The Opinion of the Arizal

While the halacha follows the Shulchan Aruch that the mitzvah begins at 70, there’s an interesting Arizal that disagrees.

The Arizal (quoted by the Chida in Birkei Yosef) says that the mitzvah begins at the age of 60.

What about the Gemara and Mishna indicating that seivah begins at 70?

The Minchas Chinuch explains that the Arizal wanted to fulfill the opinion of Targum Onkelos. Onkelos learns that the first part of the verse – mipnei seivah takum –  is a reference to Torah scholars while the second part of the verse – vehadarta pnei zaken – is a reference to the elderly. 

Based on this, the section of the verse dealing with age mentions the term zikna – not seivah. Therefore, the mitzvah applies at the age of zikna –  and the same Mishnah in Pirkei Avos tells us that “ben shishim leziknah” – that zikna begins at 60.

Therefore, it’s worthy to be concerned that maybe the mitzvah begins at 60.

R’ Ovadia has a different reading of the Arizal. He notes that the words of the Arizal himself seem to indicate that he held that seivah begins at 60 – and R’ Ovadia brings a Tikkunei Zohar that indicates that seivah indeed begins at 60, against our version of the Mishnah in Pirkei Avos. He also notes that there appear to be different versions of the Mishnah in Pirkei Avos in the Rishonim – therefore, one can’t conclusively prove from there that the mitzvah only begins at 70.

All that said, R’ Ovadia notes that since the Gemara in Bava Basra does indicate that 70 is the age for seivah, the poskim quote 70 as the age for the mitzvah.

We Respect Elders – What Next?

The Sforno notes that the mitzvah immediately following mipnei seivah takum is the prohibition against harming converts. What’s the connection between these two mitzvos?

The Sforno explains that while we must of course respect our chachamim and our elders, we must also be wary not to fall into the trap of elitism and not show care for newer members of our community. As noted by the Chinuch (Mitzvah 431), the mitzvah of loving converts also tells us to care for any person in a new or unfamiliar situation, such as a person not in his hometown. 

By fulfilling these mitzvos, may we see geulos and yeshuos.

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